E3 - Balancing Life and Compassionate Communication
Keywords
animal communication, consciousness, harmony, intuitive communication, balance, compassion, insecurity, shadow work, gifts, relationships, consciousness, ego, judgment, compassion, animals, grief, healing, joy, harmony, self-awareness
Summary
In this conversation, Kerri Lake and Holli Shan explore the profound relationship between humanity and the animal kingdom, emphasizing the importance of animal communication and the intuitive connection that exists between species. They discuss the potential for harmony, the significance of compassionate communication, and the personal journey of understanding one's gifts and responsibilities in sharing knowledge. The dialogue also touches on the complexities of human consciousness compared to animal consciousness, highlighting the need for a deeper connection with the natural world. In this conversation, Holli and Kerri delve into the complexities of consciousness, the nature of judgment, and the differences in compassion towards animals and humans. They explore the journey of grief and how connecting with animals can foster healing and compassion. The discussion emphasizes the importance of joy, simplicity, and the heart space in achieving harmony in life. Ultimately, they highlight the significance of listening and being present as a means to connect with oneself and others.
Takeaways
The animal kingdom serves to remind humanity of open-hearted living.
Harmony with animals has historical precedence and can be achieved today.
Intuitive communication with animals is a natural ability that can be rediscovered.
Balance in life is personal and should not lead to overwhelm.
Compassionate communication requires authenticity and care for others' feelings.
Insecurity is often tied to our shadow self and can be addressed with compassion.
Gifts and knowledge should be shared to empower others.
Every individual has a unique relationship with animals, whether they recognize it or not.
Understanding animal consciousness can shift our perspective on their value.
Nature's gifts are meant to be shared, not hoarded. The greater harmony exists beyond the ego.
Humans can transcend judgment through self-awareness.
Compassion for animals can be easier than for humans.
Grief can deepen our compassion for others.
Animals communicate without judgment, offering pure love.
Joy and fun are essential aspects of life.
We can recognize harmony without striving for it.
Listening is crucial for healing and connection.
Animals can help us shake off our ruts.
Surrendering to the moment allows for freedom.
Sound Bites
"Animals are here to assist humanity."
"Intuitive communication is our birthright."
"Insecurity is a part of our shadow work."
"Gifts should be shared, not kept to oneself."
"That's when the greater harmony is."
"Animals show up with no judgment."
"Your heart has to go out and be open."
"We don't have to try to achieve harmony."
"If we could just be quiet enough to listen."
"Listening is one of my very favorite things."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Animal Communication and Consciousness
03:09 Harmony Between Humanity and Animals
05:54 Intuitive Communication with Animals
08:57 Finding Balance in Life and Communication
12:09 Compassionate Communication and Authenticity
14:48 Understanding Insecurity and Shadow Work
17:59 Gifts and Responsibilities in Sharing Knowledge
21:08 The Relationship Between Humans and Animals
30:08 Exploring Consciousness Beyond the Ego
32:43 The Nature of Judgment and Self-Awareness
35:02 Compassion for Animals vs. Compassion for Humans
38:05 The Journey of Grief and Compassion
39:50 The Role of Animals in Human Healing
44:20 Embracing Joy and Simplicity in Life
51:14 The Heart Space and Presence of Harmony
Transcript
Holli (00:06.094)
you with an open heart and say who you really
No need to find the weapons for this faith and grace But don't doubt it, trust the smile on my face
So here we go. Okay. So I'm Carrie Lake and I've put together this podcast called Animals of a New Earth for the purpose of bringing new and high consciousness perspective to the relationship between humanity and the animal kingdom. And to really illuminate that the animal kingdom is here in large part to assist humanity to open our hearts.
There's so many different ways to look at that and there's so many different ways to draw it out and make associations. But ultimately, this is the profound service that the existence of the animal kingdom is, is a reminder of here's what it's like to live with an open heart. So that's what's behind me wanting to connect with beautiful people like Holly Shan, who's here with us.
And Holly does animal communication work through her business called Compassion Speaks. And you'll be able to see her link as well in the text section. So Holly, thank you so much to me. Well, is there anything you'd like to say to expand on your introduction?
Holli (01:53.678)
Let's see, like I said, I don't think there's anything too much more to expand on. It's really just my mission and the bigger calling to really close that gap of communication because there is, I don't think there's a reason why we can't live harmoniously with each other, animals and people alike. And it's my job to help bridge that gap of that understanding. And it's not as difficult, I think, as people make it to be, and it's not as complicated.
You know, think it's a lot of people, you know, make it out to be. yeah, and I was just realizing here that the sound wasn't coming through my earbuds. It was just through the regular computer. So that's why I took them off. So that wasn't the plug I thought it was in my machine.
I'm sorry.
Kerri (02:41.91)
That's awesome. Okay, so this is so great. I love everything you just said is so perfect to me. The simplicity, right? And that that we do have an opportunity to live in harmony with the animal kingdom. I could talk about that for about 1200 days. So tell me, why do you see that? Like that, that we can live in harmony. Tell me what you see that makes you say that.
Because it's been done. You know, we used to do it. You know, it used to be done. You know, if you look at, you know, a lot of the Native American tribes, you know, they, you know, they still worked in, they worked in harmony, you know, with, the animal kingdom. And specifically, I can remember going to communicate, going to a communicating with wildlife retreat out in Driggs at the Earth Fire.
Institute and Penelope Smith was holding that retreat there. And we got to sit there and commune with the bears. And I just fell in love with this one black bear. in the meditation with the black bears, I could see way back when there was a time when there was this unity, when everybody worked together.
you know, it's like you could, you know, everybody understood each other and there was still that harmony and just working together. So it has, so it has happened. And I think, and I think also in today's world, it still is happening, but in a different way. And I feel like we could use more of it when we can get a lot of the schlock and misunderstanding out of the way.
Because that's all it really is. It's misunderstanding, isn't it? Misinterpretation. And what I see is it's misinterpretation of who we are. Right? It's not a misinterpretation. Well, yeah, there's misinterpretation about what animals are, who animals are, what they're here for. That they're more valuable chopped up into parts than they are as a whole being. That's all an economic conversation. But what I see, and I'm glad that you said this, is that harmony
Kerri (04:57.004)
that humanity used to experience with the animal kingdom, it still exists. It actually exists with availability at an even higher level of awareness than before. And that's only because of the evolution of humans at this point, you know, that more of us are aware the way that you're talking about, right? Like, we are a little bit more tuned into compassion and that gives us a different access.
We
Holli (05:26.198)
Mm-hmm. It's like when Nancy Windhart talks about how our intuitive sense, the ability to communicate intuitively with animals, is our birthright. It's a natural born thing. And like I've told people, and I talk about this too, is that we're born with this and kids are a natural at it. They just do it. And then somewhere along the line, somewhere our society says, that's not possible.
And then it takes time and so it gets shut down, it gets hidden. And then later on we rediscover that, shoot, you know what, that is there and that is possible. Now some people will say, you know what, forget you society, I know this is here and I know I can do this, so go over there, eat a cookie. And for those people, fantastic, great. I'm so glad that they've never lost it they've always been in touch with it. And then you have, of course, the people that
we discover it and say, know what, this is real after all. You know, that thing that you thought and dreamed of being possible is. So, and once we can get in touch with that and then you realize, hey, wait a second, you know, the animals are communicating that way too. I understand. I understand now.
Sure.
Kerri (06:40.62)
Yeah, and though it's, we get taught to doubt what we know because when, especially when we're little, we can't articulate what we know. We don't have the cognition yet. We don't have the vocabulary, but the feel is all there. And what I love sharing with people is the, even the suggestion that it's possible to function on a foundation of sense and feel.
to actually feel without fear, or even if you're feeling fear, you feel fear without fearing your fear. It becomes a conversation. It's a conversation of information through your senses, and it's just a different system. And I think this is something that it's confusing for people who think, if I knew that my whole life, how come I don't know it now? Or people who will say,
Yeah.
Kerri (07:37.944)
Like, how do I know it's not just my imagination? What I always say to them is, for one thing, it has been with you your whole life. You were just conditioned and your attention was taken to operate with a certain linear logical system that was reproducible in society, improvable in society. But that intuitive system is still very alive.
it takes a little recalibration to recognize intuitive information sometimes in that context.
Yeah, and I feel like that you have to strike a balance with that, right? It's like I tell people all the time, know, it's okay to be skeptical and it's okay to question. Just don't be so far on the one end about it that you won't accept anything that comes from the more ethereal, the more intuitive place.
Let me ask you about this, it's another little point of discernment that I love to bring to people is this idea of balance, striking a balance. Tell me what you mean by that, because I want to hear what you mean by that.
Sure, and it's funny because a lot of people think of balance as even. It's like there's like 50 % here, 50 % here. But what I've come to feel that balance is, is balance is something that you're able to achieve and not have a feeling of overwhelm. So you can still have your, you can still do all the things that you do, but do them in such a way that it doesn't make you crazy.
Holli (09:25.452)
So I feel like balance is something that is personal. what is balanced for me may not necessarily be balanced for you and may not be balanced for something else. mean, there could be that, okay, people talk about the work-life balance, right? So you have the work and that could be a big stressor or it could be a big point of joy. And then you have your play and the play should be something that rejuvenates you so that you can go back to
go back to work and do it well and not be as drained or depleted as you were. So I feel like having balance means that you can still do one thing and another and not be completely and utterly drained and sacked.
Totally get it. That's cool. So I love this because when there is the communication with the animals, when there's communication through the heart, all of that happens. It's not about getting a correct answer. It's about feeling what's true, right? And I love the conversation about the word balance for exactly this reason, because when I ask you what balance is to you, it ends up that it's a feeling, right? It's not a definition.
It's a feeling. And to me, the words you used to describe balance, in my world, you're describing harmony. The word harmony. But see, this is, I love bringing this up because it's a profound distinction between that logical linear system of get the word right and the intuitive system of wait, which word best describes how it feels to me?
Okay, yeah.
Holli (11:11.138)
Mm-hmm.
And so it's the connection through the heart. And I want to talk about this. really want to maybe next we'll hear about how you knew that you wanted to continue to help animals and presumably people, right? Compassionate communication. But this idea of letting things be in motion
work, life, relationship, relationship with self, patterns, money, managing animals, managing myself, all that stuff, letting it all be in motion is what actually lets us be available for intuitive clarity when if instead we're going down the logical linear path, that's more about get it right, have control, be predictable.
and make sure you don't make other people too uncomfortable, right? Sharing even compassionate information from the heart can generate discomfort, but it's a discomfort that also comes with love. Do you also find that?
Yeah, because when you share something from the heart, when you're doing something with compassion, with love, you have to do it authentically and it needs to be the truth. I mean, granted, there is a finesse, there is a way to say it without completely and hurting.
Holli (12:59.138)
the person that you're translating to. And so that's part of that compassion, that's part of the care that you need to do when you are relaying information, when you're communicating that. if you just, I mean, there are people who can be great communicators, but they're just all balls to the wall. They're all just plain, no finesse, no care or consideration for the feelings.
you know, of someone else. And I feel like with the compassion, need to be, you need to be aware of that. You need to be mindful of that. And yeah, and I feel like there is, is that push to be, you know, to be linear. and what a lot of, and a lot of things I think that's coming up now, especially when you have an entrepreneurial journey or any kind of, you know, journey where you're digging deep into the self and deep into, you know, your spirit, you realize that this is not a linear quest. can't go, okay, you can't go.
A to B to C to D and then eventually I'll just get this over here and the journey is a much more, you know, is a bigger labyrinth. It's a much more, you know, it is much more of a flow and people, I feel like they kind of try to stop the flow or go against the flow or do something different and they need to flow within themselves and within the spirit of what they're doing. If that makes sense.
Well, yeah, sure, of course it does. And I think it bumps right up on that edge of discomforts for people. Because I can hear the collective mental egoic levels saying, how do you do that? I'm not good at that. Oh, sure, that's so easy to talk about. and that is a collective, what's the word?
That's a collective argument that people tap into as if insecurity is the norm, as if being insecure with yourself is the default. And I'd actually just had another conversation this morning with another amazingly beautiful woman who does communication work in her own unique way. And she was expressing some
Kerri (15:17.494)
sense of insecurity about a request that just came in. And in our back and forth conversation, it was profoundly compassionate because we just looked at, what does your insecurity want from you? If you listen to your insecurity with the same compassion that you would listen to a horse or a dog or your best friend sitting across the table having a bad day, right?
It's the same feeling, isn't it? It's just from within to within. And that's the place that can cultivate that compassion that you're talking about for others.
Absolutely, and I call that doing your shadow work. The shadow, the way I see it is that entity that being within ourselves that keeps us safe. And it's the thing that wants to keep us comfortable and generally things might have happened during our childhood that wrote that into our law that prevents us from doing things. And so I worked on this.
this meditation, this working really to go inward and to have that compassionate conversation. You know, where to sit because people talk about, know, I've conquered my dweller, I've conquered my shadow. No, your shadow is the integral part of yourself. Is that how you're talking about yourself? You've conquered a part of you. How about let's change the narrative on it and let's talk about basing it with honor, with compassion, with respect.
and have a conversation over a cup of tea. Just sit and have that conversation and say, show me what I need to learn. Show me what you have and face it not with fear, although you can be a little apprehensive about it, but you face it with that sense, with that even place and say, okay, you know, show me, let me learn. Sorry, this is what.
Holli (17:24.43)
Thank you, Rocky.
Thank you, buddy. the neighborhood safe.
Oh, he's keeping the whole neighborhood safe. He'd take down a deer if we let him. He would run up a tree if we let him go get a squirrel. And he's got this really neat relationship with bunnies. They sit there and they go, ha ha. And he's like, but I want you. And they're going, ha ha, I'm just going to eat my grass right here. So Rocky, mommy's on the phone. Rocky.
So I'm sorry, I really should have done this from a
No, he's actually, his voice is not loud on this side of it.
Holli (18:06.986)
Okay, yeah, he's got his little growl, so he's not ballistic, which believe me, you would hear it if he was ballistic. So you can edit all that,
No, we're just gonna leave it all in it's all good This is why I wanted to do the podcast this way and just let it be real, you know Yeah, we're to create some facade that I am the professional and my clients don't have this ability I think those of us that are are at a certain level of accomplishment and relationship in relationship with ourselves It's I get to see even for myself more and more
what it means to be gifted. And to me it means having gifts to share.
Absolutely, absolutely, because I feel like when you're at a point when you have this, then I feel like it's a responsibility to share. Because I feel like, okay, if you're not gonna share it, then why bother teaching? Or almost why bother? I mean, I don't know if that's a daft question.
It's a bit of a human twist on the energy of the freedom to share, you know, because humans have these opinions about ourselves of, you know, what's my purpose and what am I here for and how do I earn my keep and and responsibility and, and there's lots of ways to noodle that out and talk about it, you know, like responsibility is the ability to respond and that's all good. But ultimately what made sense to me when I was a
Kerri (19:38.846)
a kid like 11 and 12 where National Geographic was God kind of, you know, that because I would tune into the animals and the cultures that were being shown on the screen and I would I'd be like, me about yourself. Show me everything about you. How does this feel? How does a cheetah feel? How does the gazelle feel? And what made sense to me, the way the logic came together is that nature
doesn't endow individuals with gifts for them to keep gifts to themselves. And another way I've seen it written is, you the tree does not eat its own fruit. why would nature give all these resources to one individual if for her to keep it to herself? And so it's a very generative way to look at it from a heartful intuitive
perspective. And I just love to bring that forward because it feels different. And tell me how, if you feel the difference, it feels different than saying it's my responsibility because I have this. So I'm responsible to share it with the world. And it just, matters to me that the subtlety of difference, because the subtlety of difference touches a different aspect of what's true. touches a
different way.
I feel like, so we have this gift for whatever it happens to be. And I feel like there's two ways you can do it. think the one is serving people, serving your clientele. So like if you're in a healer capacity, you can serve them. And so they're serving them and I feel there's also teaching and sharing it and sharing with other people. And I know there are some people who will serve.
Holli (21:39.168)
and not really want to teach. Which I suppose, you you've got that two prong thing, but my thought is, is that if you have a gift, you know, yeah, you know, share it, know, to serve people too, which is also why I'm doing the grief counseling. You know, you can share that, also it's, you know, share that to serve, but in my mind, it's also sharing to teach, to show up, to show other people you are empowered to do this. You can do this too.
So that's my take on it. It's like, can serve and do it. And in the doings, you can also teach and share.
I love it. I so appreciate that. And for exactly that reason, you know, it's not about being better than I'm the teacher and you're not. is really like truly teaching is about showing people where it already exists within them and providing them the tools and empowerment to bring their awareness to their own ability so that their ability can expand. mean, the ability expands simply by bringing your awareness to it.
That's where nature works, right? That's beauty of human consciousness. Our awareness is this greatest generative creative force. Take your awareness to something, it expands. so, with that then, let's go back to the critters and the relationship between animals and human hearts.
I think for a lot of people it's obvious, you know, that the animal kingdom opens our hearts, that they open human's hearts. And for other people, it's not so obvious. So tell me what that's like from your view, your lens, you know, the difference between people that the love is obvious and people that it's not so obvious.
Holli (23:39.434)
So it's funny because for me, when I was little, I always took into account how animals felt and their own agency and their feelings and things like that. And I always knew that they were full spectrum emotional beings. always knew that. it always amazed me that other people didn't feel the same way and didn't see it.
Right and as I grow on you know and as I become an adult and you know and have you know and I've had you know have have had and do have You know animals in my life. You know I'll tell people you know I'll tell people that you know it's never just uh You know when the people say oh, it's just a dog. No. It's never just uh and I tell and I will tell people I said yeah the next person yeah anybody who tells me oh It's just a dog or oh It's just uh I said a bottle is gonna get broken and someone's gonna get cut because that's just how passionate I am about
And
Watch your mouth. It's a little mean, that's where I am. And I've seen more, as I've been going through this, I've seen more people who are willing to stop and be open to the fact of animals being their own emotional, being their own emotional sentient, self-aware beings and then honoring that. And there are still people who, again, who just don't.
And so for them, I just look at them and go, okay. And for some people, you can change their perspective or they're, are willing to change their perspective. And there are some people who just are not. And I just have to be at peace that, okay, there are those people who don't, but I know, I know who I am. know what I do. And I know the truth of the animals that are, you know, with me and around me. And also I have plenty of people who are like me too, who, you know, who feel the same way. And so we are the advocates for them.
Kerri (25:38.846)
So the people that don't feel the sovereignty and the purity and the presence of animals and they would say, you're full of beans, it's just a cow. Are they telling the truth?
for their perspective because I think that's what they've been indoctrinated into. So I'll give you a great example. So my mother, you know, my mother knows, you know, I've been in this for a while and you know, she's from that time where, you know, essentially dogs and cats and animals are property. And she called me one time and she was very surprised and said, because her
her friend's dog was on Prozac, I think for being depressed. And she called me and she said, well, can a dog get depressed? And I said, yeah, they can, just like we do. And she was just floored that a dog could be depressed, that a dog had that ability to be depressed. And so it doesn't matter how many times I've told her that, you know,
that dogs are thinking, feeling emotional beings with their own opinions about the world around them. It still hasn't quite sunk in. I don't think she's really taken that to heart. some people are amazed all the time and they never cease to be amazed. I think there's different levels of that. I can't change people. can only share with them my perspective and hope that I can offer a perspective shift.
from their point of view, but it's one of those things that they need to experience it and really experience it and not try to explain it away as something else.
Kerri (27:31.826)
Absolutely. That's the only way the expansion happens, isn't it? When people are willing to have their own experience with perhaps a different explanation. know, think not everybody is touched like, by the animal kingdom. Many, many are. And many, I think, would would say they felt touched even if there's no other humans around.
Huh!
Kerri (28:00.928)
and sometimes that's a lot easier. But everybody is touched and again, this is one of the things that is valuable to me in bringing this whole conversation forward is that
Every single person on the planet has a relationship with animals, whether they're pets or sporting goods, or even if all somebody ever does in relation to animals is eat them. It's a very intimate relationship with animals. to me, it's valuable to bring that conversation forward to help
reorient people to relationships. Yep. And relationships with life so that life can perpetuate life rather than looking to an economy to perpetuate life. Economy is great, but it doesn't perpetuate life. It perpetuates itself. Right. And I could go on, that's tangent. That's a different concept. But I wanted to ask you, coming off of that, the last bit that you shared.
If animals are sentient feeling beings with their own opinion and their own view of life, what is the difference between animal consciousness and human consciousness that you see?
Holli (29:35.07)
I think.
Take your time. Real, real time thinking about this.
It's a real metaphysical thing because I feel like with consciousness, feel like it feels like there's different, or I feel, there's different layers and different levels to it. So on the one level, just on like our basic consciousness with what we think about and how we feel about things, I feel like humans are a lot more complicated. We tend to complicate things more so than what the animals do.
little bit,
So and I feel like that's more that's like the ground the ground level of the consciousness and then when you go I think to upper levels where you can't where you kind of go past that I guess you could say the ego sense, you know that that sense of self that humans have that complicates things then once I think once we start going going up, know, ethereally more spiritually more into the collective kind of thing. I feel like that's when I Think like that that's when the greater harmony is that's when the greater connection is that's when the greater
Holli (30:40.206)
dance is, that's where the, you know, the handshake is the, you know, the holding on the, you know, the reaching out and yes, and working together kind of spiral kind of thing. that's the way I, that's the way I feel it is. Cause when we're like, when we go into a minute or at least when I go into, you know, a meditative state and just, you know, and have that, you know, that connection with what's, you know, with what's greater than you can still it's spirit connecting to spirit.
without any complication, without any trappings of, but.
Exactly, right? And I love it. And I love how you're describing it. So I might change the words a little, so tell me if this describes what you're talking about, But what I hear you talking about is there's a band of frequency, a band of consciousness, through which the egoic awareness travels, right? And there's space effectively beneath it and above it. And beneath and above would be like lower frequency.
higher frequency, no different than, know, red is a different frequency than fuchsia, right? They're just different frequencies, not one is better than the other, they're just different. And so, humans have this amazing ability to move all through the spectrum. And one way that I like to describe it is humans have the ability to go against their nature.
And the animal kingdom has a different consciousness than that. They don't have a consciousness that would say, my God, she thinks that my my butt looks fat. I better go hide under the bed. They don't they don't have that self reprisal ability, that ability to go against their heart. And if we let it be that simple.
Kerri (32:43.338)
it starts to get easier to experience the absence of judgment because going against ourselves is that that judgment part that says, something should be better than it is. Something could be better than it is.
challenge a little bit on that just because.
Especially just around the word judgment. I truly feel we can stand and listen without judgment. We can create a safe space and we can be without judgment. I think we are more prone to judgment because of our environment. Because of the things that say, if it's not this, therefore it must be this.
Yes.
So I think there's still that part of us that will do that. But I don't think it's our true nature to be judgmental. I think the judgmental works off of the insecurity that then gets played on by other outside influences. So I think when you come into the true nature of us as beings,
Holli (34:04.078)
I think it's absolutely possible to be non-judgmental.
Thank you so much for articulating that. And that's my point exactly. Through the connection with the animal kingdom, we can know that part of ourselves because that capacity to judge is relatively contained within that band of frequency that is operated by the ego mind that says, my God, is it good enough? Am I good enough? What if I'm not?
when we transcend that or when we venture beyond that band of suggestion, that's when what I see is humans can be in the place that is common to all the rest of the world. Right? So will you talk then about
Kerri (35:02.818)
what it's like when you connect on this communication level and how is it different having compassion for animals than it is having compassion for people?
Holli (35:19.274)
It's different now. It used to be that very much I would say, well, I hate people. It's why I work with animals, because I much prefer animals. They're always honest. And what I've learned during the course of this journey is that you have to have compassion for people. So I've learned that even though I might have my
I might have my preference in my, you know, in my compassion and the connection with the animals because that's, that's all there. That's a really natural thing for me, thing for me to do for people. Yeah. For people it's, it's different. It seems to be a little bit, I don't even have the right word for it. It's, I can still have compassion for, you know, for people when they are with, when they're with their pets and they are willing to work with them. If they're not, it is harder for me to be compassionate.
if they don't want to listen. So if the person is willing to listen, then, and least have a conversation, then it's easier to be compassionate for them. In terms of being compassionate for people as a whole, that's a little bit harder for me because I have a hard time with the injustice and the cruelties that people tend to do to each other, as well as to animals, and animals don't do that to each other.
And people can say well what about you know what about the cat who just likes to torture that mouse over there well you know what that's a barn cat that's what they do that's their nature to do it and I can't you know that's not for me to interfere with who have compassion for the mouse sure
Thank you so much for your openness and honesty about that. It's so important to me to talk about that and just put it out there because I think the vast majority of people have a hard time feeling compassionate for other humans. yet the animal kingdom shows up with no judgment. And they're like, you're being human. I love you. I don't know why you're doing that, but I love you. And it is...
Kerri (37:27.566)
It's profound to be among animals and even entertain that place of no judgment is what's common between us. But then it's so beautiful, and thank you again, it's so beautiful to acknowledge, well, in my humanness, I still have judgment. It's still hard. Oh, But it's so kind to admit that.
It's kind to everybody to admit that.
And it even goes to a deeper level, because since I've been on the...
Since I've been on the, should have put my phone on to not disturb, Since I've been on this journey of, since I've been on this journey, especially with the pet loss grief counseling and becoming a pet loss grief counselor, there's even a greater, that greater sense of compassion for the person who is grieving.
That's great.
Holli (38:33.006)
So your heart has to go out and be open and hold a very sacred space and a safe space of non-judgment. in doing that and doing this journey, I feel like I've softened a little bit more and have had a little bit more compassion for some people. So I try not to knee-jerk reaction because I'm human, I've got those things too. And if I do knee-jerk reaction, then I'll take that breath and go, okay.
Have a knee-jerk reaction, what else is going on here? And I think that takes a lot of self-awareness for other people to do to not knee-jerk reaction so much. And that's a whole other tangent, talk in and of itself, of knee-jerk and reaction to things like, yeah.
So then how opening our hearts to listening to the animals differently or more, or exploring what it might be to be a human without judgment, it's a tender journey, right? So will you share a little bit about like why you kept going forward with it when it is difficult and how did the animals and connecting with the animals' hearts
assist you specifically to continue to open your heart to other humans.
Wow, it's a really deep, it's a deeper kind of journey because when I first started wanting to communicate with animals, I just wanted to communicate with my own dogs. I knew they were looking at me and I knew they were saying something and I didn't quite get it. So I learned and through learning with them and also having my own grief experience with them, I learned a lot from my animals who had passed.
Holli (40:28.726)
like one of my dog's duchess after she had passed. You know, had a dream, you we kept her ashes on the mantle and she came to me in a dream and she led me to a box and opened up the box and the box was empty. So my lesson for her, from her was that I'm not in that box. So I'm like, okay, honey.
Hahaha
And then later on, when I was an assistant instructor at Equisage teaching massage, because that was my first profession, if you will, with animals was doing massage. And I witnessed a horse pass due to colic. That was the first time I had ever witnessed that. And just like those few moments were just really just playing over in my head. And I felt this presence, the head, his
the horses head just over my shoulder saying, please don't remember me like that, that's not how I lived. And I was like, okay, honey, know, I'm crying and saying, okay, honey, I'm gonna work on doing better. those moments, those moments of working with them both in life and even after, you know, being, you know, and having the grief experience, like, okay, I've gone through this, I know how bad this hurts, and I also know how much society does not put a value on when an animal passes.
who has become a family member. so through that and wanting just to learn to be a better counselor to people, because it was, because I think at some point that was when I realized that, okay, yeah, other people like me, need me, or at least need the non-judgment. They need someone to hold the safe space for them. And so I said, okay, that's the difference. Not so much that I hate people, but I hate that.
Holli (42:17.358)
I hate that indifference, but if I can make a difference and be a lighthouse for people, then that would be the better service. And then of course, Spirit pretty much pushed on me and said, you need to be a grief counselor. And after that short discussion, said, okay, yes boss.
I have learned to not argue.
Yeah, because the spirit tells you to do something, you do it. Nobody answered your question. just kind of...
Yeah. Well.
No, it's beautiful. It's absolutely beautiful. Because when you're sharing, you're sharing the feeling of purity of the journey. in these conversations, that's why I didn't want it to be like interview. I just wanted to talk about stuff that we both know that doesn't get drawn out all the time. And lots of people know, but it doesn't get drawn out all the time. And it's hard for a lot of people to talk about.
Kerri (43:19.968)
in everyday life. And so it becomes a mystery and a frustration. And my suggestion and offering and invitation is to explore what feels real and true to you. And the animal kingdom in their, just their beingness and their presence are in that
beingness all the time. So let's not, let's play with not complicating it too much for a bit. And what if we let it be as simple as the animals, you know, their first communication is here's how it feels to be me. Yep. And that's it. And what if it's that simple? And then of course, because we have this cognitive ability, we can color it with other concepts and associations and meanings. But if we always start with here's how it feels.
and we start receiving the animals. Do you like my friend back here? We start receiving.
I love that picture back there.
on a level that they're communicating how life feels to them. It opens our capacity and willingness to feel and that's where compassion can happen. That's where compassion lives.
Holli (44:46.286)
And the big thing also, one of the things that I've heard time and time again from the animals for their people is they want them to have fun and have fun like they do. Have fun like they do in this world. Because people don't, I feel like people have started to have begun to lose the ability to just have a natural fun, whatever what I call lifts their spark, whatever brings them joy. And people, we need to do that more, I think to get back. Because that's a big thing that the animals have been.
have been teaching me and teaching people. And I know I'm not the first one to say this, but the big message is have fun. Have fun like we do. So yeah, so to your point of experiencing life and what life is like to be them, it's like, okay, yeah, let's just have that moment where you're just sitting, being at peace and just having that lovely ebb and flow of energy. And what is it like to be you? And let's have fun. Let's have fun and let's.
and let's pay attention to this fun, without complicating it, just enjoying it for what it is. And starting from there, yeah.
I love it. Bernie was with me for 14 years and he was a shepherd, hound, amazing, like best dog ever. I don't care what anybody says. It was Bernie. Bernie's the best dog, right? He basically parented me through my 20s. And when it was clear that he was on his way out, like the body just wasn't going to be serving him anymore, right?
I asked him, I had asked this question so many times on behalf of others and I finally asked it for myself. Like, before you go, what do you want me to get? What is it you've been trying to tell me that I haven't gotten yet? And it was very, very simple. was literally, like you say, the horse came over here. Bernie just came right in here, his whole presence and completely embraced me.
Kerri (46:49.312)
and said, see yourself the way I see you.
Kerri (46:56.206)
That was the whole thing. And I'm so grateful that I was relaxed enough to get it, to hear it, to really receive it, because it was also at a time where things were very tumultuous in my own life. that is a gift that never ends. And it's a gift that only expands into how I can
be with others. And like you're saying, know, people get ourselves all busy and complicated, the animals are still demonstrating that lots of weird things can be happening, but you know what? It still feels good to roll in the grass. It basically changes everything to roll in
Roll in the grass, get your feet in the mud. playing dirt. Yes.
Exactly. Get dirty and then laugh about it. Yeah. And it's just true. And the willingness to see that perspective and to feel, to experience that perspective, it takes us beyond that band of consciousness where all the judgment happens. And it literally, feels different in your body, doesn't it? It's a different felt experience when
when you're operating beyond judgment.
Kerri (48:28.354)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and it's a great, it is, it's a wonderful experience and especially when you can just let go. You know, when you can let go of that, when you can enjoy, you know, like digging in the dirt and just, for me, digging in the dirt and smelling the dirt and smelling the earth and having it on my hands just feels wonderful. And I know, you know, my dog enjoys it too when I watch him, you know, roll on the grass and just, know, scratches back and it's just the most, and it's the cutest thing ever and it's most joyful thing.
Just like, know, when I see my horse and he wants to roll, or he just has this little squeal and he takes off on a little canter, you know, in his pasture, there's just that joy. And I always look at my horse and I say, you know, I'm working on being that person that you need me to be. That I know what he sees and I know that I need to work on getting there because there's a lot of, you know, peeling off of layers and coming in.
Coming back to true and just being, you know, having fun and still being solid and still being grounded and just all that.
Yeah, I think there's this mental interpretation that if we let go, as you say, like, am I still even going to exist? What does let go mean? You know, and that's just the ego and the insecurity. let's honor that, right? Because it's there. It doesn't need to be macheted out of existence. Right. It will quiet itself right down once it knows it's not the bad guy. go, well, of course, of course you're afraid.
Kerri (50:04.716)
Right? This is why, this is where animals are so wonderful for people. Animals don't bring machetes to our ego. Well, sometimes in a way they do, but they, but they're not, they're not attacking for the sake of attacking. They are, if it feels like an animal's pushing on our ego, it's very much because the behind the behavior is a knowing that that's not who you really are. Don't push this to a head. So you can see your choice to look at it. And either fight to keep it or let go and experience yourself the way we see you.
Right. And letting go, it's not an all or nothing thing. You know, again, we're back at that, you know, the whole binary, you it either is or isn't, you know, kind of thing. you can still do that. You can still let go without losing yourself. You know, and I feel like a lot of people don't quite get that because animals will do, and also along this path,
Yeah.
Holli (51:14.826)
There are some animals that come into people's lives that are unlike anything they've ever experienced and they are there specifically to shake things up. To absolutely shake things up and to cause a difference and to help bring them out of whatever funk, whatever rut these people have been in. And so now it's time for this animal to help bring them out of it. I know that's what, you know, our own dog, that's what Rocky's done and that's what he continues to do for us. So.
It's so great and it's all a conversation from the heart toward the heart and when we let ourselves like like we were saying before come back to that simplicity the heart space is the place that doesn't operate in judgment that is common to all of life it is that the the place where harmony is already existing yeah you know and you said something I don't remember exactly how you said it but it made me want to come back to that that point that we don't have to try to achieve harmony. can. You can work that way and, you know, work toward it, work toward it, or you can let yourself come to recognize where it already exists, just like your ability to communicate. Recognize that feeling, the fact that you can shift your perspective, tune your awareness and become aware of the presence of harmony. You can feel love.
That's another way of saying it. The presence of harmony, you can feel love. You don't have anything to chase. Reorganize your awareness and let yourself become aware of where it already exists and it will only expand. And I think that's just one of the greatest gifts that the animal kingdom is to humanity and to life in general.
Absolutely.
Kerri (53:05.422)
So is there, I am now aware of the time. Is there anything else that you would like to say or add before we wrap up? I'm so grateful for the conversation and your beautiful awareness and your ability to articulate your awareness. It's really special and I so appreciate you sharing all of that.
Thank you. Thank you. And saying, know, I feel like our conversations just got just started and that we could just, you know, talk forever because I know I could talk forever about this too and just go on with so many different levels and so many different layers and prongs and branches and things like that. So, but also, but thank you for having this podcast to allow, you know, and have the space for these conversations because I think it's also an important thing for people to take a break and, you know, listen to and think about.
So, you know, so thank you for that. Wow, anything else to add? I don't think so. I've always, you I always have the mission of, you know, for people, you know, and I always want people to be able to listen, you know, I think somewhere out there, there's a quote that the animal kingdom is always communicating with us if we're just willing to be quiet enough to listen.
And and that goes for people too because people are animals too. full, you know, everybody's full spectrum emotional beings and if we could just be quiet enough to listen to each other and listen from you know from that place of you know of the heart not just what's all going on going on up here, but you know, what's truly going on and listen then then I feel that we would be further along or have just a much better much, you know, create a better space for all of us too.
Kerri (54:48.398)
Yeah, thank you so much for saying that. That's a whole other conversation too. Listening, I think, is one of, if not my very favorite thing on the planet because that's where healing and regeneration can happen. That's what lets us express ourselves is when there is a listening that beckons us forward. so, yeah. Yes, yes, yes to all of that. Yes, and more.
Holly, thank you so very much. I look forward to doing this again together because I think as you said there are so many facets and at different times different facets are going to speak to people in different ways. again, thank you for your levels of mastery, for sharing, for assisting and having the courage to walk toward compassion for yourself and humanity side by side with the animal kingdom.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Holli (55:55.926)
I look at you with an open heart and say who you really are. No need to find the words for this faith and grace. But don't doubt it, trust the smile on my face.
Holli (56:26.068)
You come to me as a kindred soul who's never been lost Through dark uncertain days when you were asking why I have been the light on the other side There's a way this life. Stop doing and start being and understand the meaning of the wonder all around. With your spirit in the air and your feet on the ground. The smallest hair.
On the hardest road will lead you where you
Surrender to this moment and let yourself be free The truth is that your story starts today
